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I have been today in some discussions with some people here in Juba, who told me about this slogan. The men told me that their hate for baganda will never change. They claim baganda are the source of instability in Uganda, because they have no side, they are pepets. One tok me to history and told me about how they learnt that Sir Apollo kaggwa was a pepet for the europeans. He claimed that the return of Museveni was the end of a republic they fought hard to establish. He told me they abolished the monarchies and now see what M7 has done. I asked him what grudge he had ion the baganda people, he told me that its because of what baganda did to his father.

First of all, bagandas were forcing his father and other tribes men to plant many trees in tororo and many others along the roads up to date.

secondly that he used to watch his father travelling to go to pay tax to the Kabaka. He and his brother tried to stop their father all the times he was going to pay these taxes but he refused. He said that he wanted to. Now this man he is carrying this grudge with him. He told me that he was happy seeing baganda die on the way to busines too juba.He is today in the sudanese army.

Whenever he meetings baganda he starts "a good muganda is a dead one". He claims one day they will be back and then this tiome there will not be any forgiveness. He told me that they were boys from Makindye barracks in Obote two. he claims that he was in Kenya when Okello tok over and he rushed to reach Uganda to advice Baaz (could not get the name correctly) not to make that cook but it was too late. Her say my God if i could catch a muganda here in juba trying to trick some as they always do, i could show he what a muganda should look like.

Then i start understanding why it will take much to reach and get a democratic Uganda.

Caroline

From ages known, we all at one point or other want to control all those around us and possibly beyond - be it physically or psychologically.  Such statement rank amongst those possibly used by Nazi's or any other power struggles between different races or tribes. 

It takes more energy to learn to hate than it does to love.  Fact of the matter, hate requires a lot of investment in sustaining and justifying its position leaving little room for anything else worthy to enjoy in such people's minds.  Obviously the hearts of such persons that carry such entrenched hatred are are too full to take in anything else that favours love.

Fortunately not any given one people are the same as in all walks of life, you will find echoed sentiments albeit differing but definitely all inferring to the same hate.  And maybe differences will never be resolved by some - life was never intended to be fair.  On the other side of the coin, you will find those that want to reconcile their differences and move on to a better level of cooperation and understanding - personally I prefer to walk with such persons.

I guess democracy is shown to bare fruition by your research - albeit as I stated in a different thread, with democracy comes responsibilities.  Vying of the opinion to unite fellow Ugians, such statements as one quoted from your walks is not one that will achieve that as it's most likely be akeen to watching someone remove a scab from a healing wound/scar. As with most things in life that have a beginning, the end is also something that comes.  When all is said and done: we all want to have a worthwhile life in peace and security. 

SugarB,

Let’s curtail this P.C (Politically Correct) where necessary. As it is, it’s usually the most offensive that are most defensive and before you know it the real victims- subdued more through  uppity than P.C are at the mercy of Twalyangannamwe not to  mention having their precious history rewritten by some pretentious Nilotic  transvestite.

If it’s a tribal war then let whoever bring it on!  Some people read silence as approval if not consent.  

Caroline 

That man does not represent the views of non Bagandans only his own selfish undertaking not far from a hater and war criminal.

There are so many war criminals in Uganda to be counselled about relationship with / to others avoid malice and preach reconcilliation to Buganda and from including any other tribe affected or concerned.

According to my understanding the man's rage has some justificatition but still that hate for baganda is too much that if any one of you had seen, how he spitted every time of a just mention of baganda. Then he could speak to all the other collegues of his in the dinka language and they all agreed. They all agree that its baganda who cause the problems of Uganda.

 It was interesting when they told me about a project which Obote implemented, called window 10, am not sure i got it correct but it had something with no one i Uganda was supposed to have more than 300 us dollars, ofcourse people had them but it was illegal. They told me they used this to catch the bagandas and tortured them in Makidye barracks. They could wake them up at 0600 in the morning and they order for their wives to come and visit them. At times they could refuse them to me their families for long, but one said. " eeeh you do not know bagandas, they could tell their wives,--mama mama colonnell muweko and then he laughed, he said these bagandas should be rubbed off the map. After those remarks, he then laughed and said, the women tricked them into giving their families more visits than was allowed". One told me of a man called Mugalu, who he enjoyed torturing and further to his family. My luganda words where written by this man since i could not spell what he said.

His wish is to abolish the monarchies, Uganda totally free of baganda and keep the republic.

He even told me that there was a man called omulangila wampamba who used to trick him and henever arrested him, he says given the chance again, he will never allow bagandas to trick him again. Bagandas are thieves, very tricky people. He even told me how baganda have taken over UPC, that Miria Obote has to go.baganda ooooh was what he said last and left.

Comments: How will such haterage be proven otherwise. There is a need for Uganda not to go back to such regimes with people full of hate. The only way is to ensure democracy, fight for it until its more stable and permanent. People should come through the ballot and this will play a big role. I have learnt alot during my travel.

These are stories Caroline. They do not represent the truth, is a creation which is just tearing people apart. Obote wouldn't touch anybody if Museveni never tried to strangle Uganda from Luwero. But why Luwero because here is a Northern highway and a mixed setlement of Ugandans.

He could have started it in Mbarara and faced it like from Kony example in Gulu. 

As i said am on adventure and studing trip. Am picking up different stories here and there. And the end, i will summarise my travel and try to find out why democracy is failing in Africa ofcourse together with other students. I know it will take me many years to have the same experience again though i have had these travels sometimes.

I see the key to a better Uganda is to avoid such sayings as the above mentioned. The fact that its many former Ugandan soldiers in the sudenese army is also a scare, when most of them share the same understanding of Uganda today. As you may know, there has been alot of car hijacking, death and loss of goods on the way to Juba and i asked these fellars i met whether they had some knowledge about it since they do not support anything to make it easier for Uganda today, all they did was to laugh and look at each other. Luckly the situation has become better with the deployment of more forces. But the haterage between the north and the south will take much to eradicate. I have friends from all parts of Uganda maybe coz they see am not a real Ugandan by appearance but  there are many i have met with friends from either way.

Are you saying that coz of M7 not starting from Mbarara like Kony did, you will justify not having peace in Uganda today. We have to leave the past and look at the future. Democracy should contribute to people coming together with different understanding but not bringing people with equal understanding.

Caroline

NOW LETS SEE THIS TOPIC,' A GOOD MUGANDA IS A DEAD ONE' OR 'A DEAD MUGANDA IS A GOOD ONE'

WELL WHOEVER WINS LET SEE AGAIN.[:'(]

WHO IS A MUGANDA? SON OF KINTU? AND WHAT IS A MUGANDA?

HOW IS A MUGANDA, WHERE IS A MUGANDA AND WHY?     AND ALSO     WHERE DOES HE COME FROM?

VERY CLEVER WHOEVER WAS THE DISCOVERY OF THIS STATEMENT, YOU CANNOT ATTACK IT, AND NEITHER CAN YOU INTRODUCE IT FROM EITHER SIDE, IN THIS CROSS EXAMINATION.

WHOEVER HIS SPIRIT WAS TROUBLED BY THE PRESENCE OF A MUGANDA PERHAPS IN A DREAM INVENTED THIS OBSERVATION..

NOW LETS SEE DEAD: WHAT IS DEAD? IS IT MUGANDA? AND WHO IS DEAD? WHO IS A GOOD ONE AND HOW  DEAD IS  A MUGANDA AND HOW DOES A MUGANDA DIE? IS A MUGANDA VIOLENT?

WHAT HAS A MUGANDA DONE TO BE SLASHED BY THIS SWORD OF WORDS OVER SINCE MUTESA THE FIRST? A FREEDOM FIGHT OR A CONFUSION FROM MY MALICE PERSPECTIVE? WHOWEVER IS A MUGANDA A WOMAN OR A MAN? .............

Am sorry, i had a bad day. Car broken down and many miles to the nearest gas station. Then i resorted to my pc with frustration. Lets reconcial the way it should be for a united Uganda. No hard feelings.

Caroline

Liz - Trying to attempt to find coherent reasoning sadly takes on all sorts - yes even those unsure of which side of the gender to lay claim to let alone knowing if they are alien or not. Pretty soon it will be aliens from Jupiter.  Guess its comparable to walking very slowly on hot coals.  Indeed an amoeba proves to be much more interesting a study to undertake.

Oloya - good to hear your input - perhaps you can be nominated for the UN post..

Some beings deliberately offend while stupidly pretending to inform and such characters deserve whatever they reap and as one deserted  member would say, we have bandwidth to spare so let them bring it on.

Out of curiosity, why would a so called  south pole scholar only research at the north pole  and all other places but the south pole itself?!  

You have a good question but mind you i have had to save a lot to accomplish my travels and adventures this years. Am soon leaving fro south africa as part of my interest to learn and hear how different people and different tribes differ from each other. Mind you we are  group of  8 students and i have some roots from Uganda. Anyway its very educational and we hope to past all our experiences over to as many people as possible at the end of this year. We are to put together a book after this travel as well as i will write another book about one particular family which i picked out as my case study" Ham Mukasa family". I had to choose between Sir Apollo Kaggwa and Ham Mukasa, i thought it was more interesting with Ham, due to the way he managed to build himself up from nothing to the royals. One of his grand grand sons of age 13 has even built a website on www,freewebs.com/hammukasa-buganda. This is an interesting topic for my case study.

Caroline

Oloya

i will rise now, and go about the city in the streets, and in the broad ways i will seek him whom my soul loventh. How does a motivated perxon communicate? Oloya...    With enthusiasm. Talks of the future and use the past experience to recognise and turn opportunies into success.

I will just give you a hug from the blue, to let you know how am thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caroline

Liz:

SugarB,

Let’s curtail this P.C (Politically Correct) where necessary. As it is, it’s usually the most offensive that are most defensive and before you know it the real victims- subdued more through  uppity than P.C are at the mercy of Twalyangannamwe not to  mention having their precious history rewritten by some pretentious Nilotic  transvestite.

If it’s a tribal war then let whoever bring it on!  Some people read silence as approval if not consent.

Hi Liz,

I'm new to this forum, have read this thread thoughtfully, and have taken particularly umbrage to your submission quoted here above. Smart of you to talk of PC issues in regard to the writing of history, it being so unprecise. Personally, I think being PC is actually politically incorrect. But, in relation to history, I must digress.

As u probably, know, every nation 'makes' the kind of History (history with a concious capital H) that it considers beneficial to its future national interest. To me, this is the crux of the matter. Is Uganda's 'national' history to be written from a nilotic or a bantu perspective? The issue is crucial not only for Uganda but for Africa as a whole, because the dividing line between Bantu and Nilotic Africa crosses through Uganda.

We are all victims of bad History. Uganda's history, for instance, is so Ganda-centric that the grand histories of the Karamojong, the Acholi, the Langi, the Madi and the Lugbara are lost in the midst of the so-called grand history of the kingdom states, ie. Buganda, Bunyoro, Ankole and Toro.

If u bother to read the histories of these nilotic societies objectively, or, to borrow ur own use of the term PC, in a PC manner, then u will discover that these Nilotic socities were actually more egalitarian (and egalitarianism is the best attribute of modernity) than the tyrannies that existed in the Bantu areas of the Great Lakes Region.

U will then learn that those who are most defensive are not really those who r most offensive. U will learn, sadly the hard way, that those who are most offensive are those who bother to do their research and discover that the precedent for state killing within the boundaries of modern Uganda, for instance, was laid by the Kings of Buganda, and that modern history books mention the Katikiro etc but conveniently ignore the 'Mukajanga' - the official executioner!

 U will also learn, the hard way, that the precedent to what many consider Nilotic 'barbarity' - that is Joseph Kony's lip, nose and ear slitting to wit - was first manifested by a hero of Buganda - Kakungulu - in Lango.

So, please, let's do what the Americans did in Texas, for instance. They turned all the many 'wanted' murderers, bank robbers and thieves who had taken refuge in the old mission at Alamo into heros by making them defend the land against the Mexicans

So there, be reasonable! Tribal war? U have already lost. Our silence is victory over ill-considered voices like yours!

Oloya, i guess you hate strong women. Am afraid to say Uganda has changed and so has the rest of the world. Your hate for women power and bagandas will not do you good nor will it to your people. Learn to reconcial.

Caroline